All it costs to fulfill the average person's needs for digital services is a $5 per month VPS instance. It's even cheaper if you buy a single board computer and host your services at home.
We've been letting companies steal our personal data and sell it to the highest bidder and destroying democracy in the process all to save what? A coffee a month?
This is one of the worst deals in history.
@jeff I run a FreedomBox instance on a single board computer which I temporarily moved to a 2.5 euro instance on Hetzner till I can fix the power backup issue at home. I wrote about my usage here
We cannot expect the average privacy-conscious person to have sysadmin and infosec skills. The self-hosting platform should take care of these. In my case, I trust the underlying #Debian operating system to provide me regular security updates and #FreedomBox for maintenance.
@njoseph There are certain issues with security when you talk about cloud hosting though. We take these for granted when a large company like Google is hosting our data, but when we self-host it becomes our responsibility.
FYI I am reading up on FreedomBox now so forgive me if I have asked questions that I will inevitably discover the answers to in my research.
@njoseph the $ cost is not the major barrier. I have a friend who can do email and FB, but thinks a wiki with a WYSIWYG editor requires a "tech whiz" to operate (their words). Geeks tend to heavily under-appreciate how much experience-based knowledge we hold, and how complicated learning new digital tools and processes is for most people
@akkartik @njoseph Amen to that. I'm trying to retrain myself to patiently explain to people why I avoid FB and suggest they do the same, instead of getting all exasperated and sarcastic as if it should be obvious to everyone by now. Again, it's easy to forget how much experience-based knowledge I hold as a fulltime geek activist
@strypey @njoseph I think we also need to reduce the cost of doing so by providing betters tools for that (for those who wants it), both the cost or time involved in that and the time needed to learn that.
Doing what you describe is a huge involvement in time today sadly (just think about handling emails...)
Freedombox and others are working on that but we really aren't a lot doing so :/ (it's not the funniest thing to do)
FreedomBox was involved in community hosting too, in a few villages and university campuses. That reminds me. I should continue writing this WikiBook.
@njoseph @RussSharek definitely good to have this list available on a public web page. Are they all distros that can run on a box-in-the-closet though? That's the use case for F-Box, F-Bone, and YUNO. My understand is that Cloudron and Sandstorm, for example, need more resources than a box-in-the-closet can realistically provide
Will update the urls soon.
@njoseph @RussSharek ae, I'm aware of the great work #Framasoft do, and I'm a #Disroot user (and a #RiseUp user for more than a decade). What I'm challenging is the idea that the end goal of #self-hosting is atomized individuals hosting only their own individual stuff. I'm not against that at all, it's a legitimate option for those privileged to have the skills, but I don't see it as realistic or even desirable for everyone to do it that way.
@strypey @RussSharek I'd say that it's no longer a hardware problem, since today's ARM boards are more powerful than the servers of 20 years ago. It's just a matter of creating software that makes it convenient enough to do self-hosting.
Isn't one smartphone per person inefficient too? If each person can have an ARM device in their pocket running client applications, they can also have another ARM device at home running server applications. We just have to build the software for it.
@njoseph @RussSharek see my original posts. No, it's not a hardware problem, and yes better #UX for hosting distros will help. But there's a reason most people don't grow their own veges, even though they could. Human communities learned a long time ago that specialization is a more efficient use of human effort than everybody doing everything as an atomized individual.
@njoseph @RussSharek it's not practical to share pocket-size client devices (eg "smartphone") in the same way it is to share a VPS or box-in-the-closet. But I'd like to see a return to more shared client devices too, eg a shared #GNU #Linux PC-as-a-screen ("Smart TV") that families use to take turns pulling up short #PeerTube videos to watch together, or playing instrumental versions of songs to sing along to together
I'm thinking about a use case where self-hosting becomes a commodity like smartphones. It might still not be desirable for everyone, but it should be possible and not very hard to do.
Ideally, these companies shouldn't have forced us to resort to self-hosting in the first place. I fear the same may happen with agriculture in the near future.
@njoseph @RussSharek again, I'm not saying *nobody* ought to run their own server or grow their own veges. On the contrary, if you have the skills, the time, and the resources, go for it! Even if you don't have the skills, learning through doing is a great way to acquire them. But I observe that most people would rather delegate jobs like that to specialist services, and those don't have to be mediated by corporations (and it's better for many reasons if they're not)
@njoseph @RussSharek to some degree, the false dichotomy of be livestock on #DataFarms, or pure #DIY, is part of what keeps people on the datafarms. It's important we create and promote third options; family self-hosting, organization self-hosting, cooperatives, not-for-profits, social enterprises etc etc. Part of that is articuating clear criteria for why corporations are a problem here, and how replacements need to be different ie *not* VC-funded startups
@njoseph In my case, the ISP blocks port 80 and 443 (and our net neutrality rules are dead) so I can’t host my own site except over Tor
My blog and all personal postings are now on a hidden service exactly for this reason. I’m using an old Thinkpad that I got on eBay years ago that now has a dead battery
Maybe you've seen the phrase "Nintendo Hard" used to describe the difficulty of classic NES games, but I think we need to come up with a new term: #NintendoEasy.
Until we have offer data appliances that prove web, email, IM, network routing and storage, and media streaming that are as affordable and as easy to set up as the Nintendo Entertainment System was back in the 80s, #selfhosting just isn't realistic for the average person.
@njoseph That's an expensive coffee.